Allegation by whistleblower—a former top intel official in the U.S. government—would establish, for the first time in history, the existence of other highly advanced intelligent life in the universe.
The whistleblower says the existence and operations of this group were kept secret from an authorized federal UAP task force. He seems to be implying that the White House may not have known.
All of this is merely speculation without solid evidence. Sure, someone was denied access to -- what, exactly? And a secret group did -- things we don't know anything about 'cause they were concealed?
Which is more likely to be the case overall; Visitors from space whose mere existence requires totally scrapping our knowledge of physics (yet who have somehow managed never to be seen in public), or another UFO hoax in a long, long train of UFO hoaxes?
Some of that Navy stuff turns out to be natural after non-military sensors people look at the data. I wish they had seen a saucer. I'm going to point you at my source for this from yesterday. You can search for "gofast." https://computer.rip/2023-06-07-something-up-there---nasa-and-uaps.html
Unexplained Aerial Phenomena is an extremely broad category. Mundane things can easily fit that description when people get poor visual contact and poor sensor information about things they see.
Military is not science. They're not trained to look at parallax, etc. It's all designed to lock-on and shoot. I'm a cold-war brat from the radar research end. My parents met in the Rad Lab, building 6 at MIT during WWII.
A malignant narcissist would never embrace sharing information that there is a power greater than them and they don’t have control over it or even understand it .
Do some basic follow up logic. The president has to go to the military and demand something specific and is told simply that there is nothing there. What's he going to do about it? Call the military? Tell them they're lying. For that-- he would need proof, right? See how this works?
Anyone who works in government that does stuff Trump doesn't like. Especially obeying the law when Trump wants to order people to do unconstitutional stuff.
It’s about time we had some actual disclosure about the government’s true level of knowledge about alien craft instead of these ridiculous Tic Tac cockpit videos etc. that show nothing definitive and let the Navy/government persist in its denials of knowledge about UFOs/UAP. The science and tech we’ve “enjoyed” over the past 60 years is horse-and- buggy science compared to what is actually known from reverse engineering alien technology. Global warming by fossil fuels continued due to govt and industry suppression of alien tech. This concerns the biggest story since the A-bomb.
Yes, reverse engineering can involve what humans do not yet know or know how to successfully use. At first I wanted to believe that the TicTac was an encounter of an alien nature...quite exciting!...but when I looked at where the Navy carrier was, it was in an area off the Pacific coast used for Navy exercises. That made me realize that the TicTac could easily have been one of our human reverse engineered craft taken out of black project temporarily to see what would happen in a non-top secret human encounter.
Like what happened with the usual black program aircraft that would be flown at night and then at some point in daylight and then finally officially revealed to exist. Like the B2 Stealth Bomber and the F-117 (I remember when one crashed in the Sierras in the 1980s, before it was made public...that was one hush hush retrieval, combing the ground for *every single piece* of wreckage, so as not to reveal what new material was used to make it ).
Does anybody find the vast technological advances we have made in the past 80 years strange? Maybe we reverse engineered computer chips or any of the many advances we see in materials science. Modern man has been around for at least 80k years. What makes our lifetime so special?
Yes, we do live in amazing tech and material times. "What makes our lifetime so special?" can be said by those living in certain times of advances...printing press etc. I think WW2 was an incentive to quickly develop technologies, besides working to develop the non-conventional atomic bomb. Post WW2 came with a steady stream of advances, many needed for human space travel. Advances build on prior advances, add in breakthroughs, which can be done without exotic tech or materials.
As a babyboomer, I was promised as a child, via books, cartoons and movies, flying cars, space travel as common as airplane travel, etc by now haha. One of my first childrens books with drawings and reading showed a family traveling to space for a vacation, complete with contemporary luggage!
I think that exotic tech/materials are only as useful tech-wise to humans in the time of human development in which they are discovered. The last 80 years of human tech development is a time in which humans could finally begin to process and research found exotic tech. Like the obelisk in 2001: A Space Odyssey :-).
Ours is indeed quite the time to live in when we can at least come with a floor of knowledge to begin to understand and work with exotic tech/materials! But, hell, I'll die before I get my flying car or vacation in space as easy as getting on an airplane haha!
The guy still doesn't provide any proof. He might as well say that the US government is keeping a half dozen angels under lock and key. Extraordinary claims and all that.
I neither believe nor disbelieve him. But I do think the interview explains quite clearly why the evidence is not (and could not be) in his physical possession. He is not vague on that point.
I'll be blunt: I don't believe him unless he provides evidence. This isn't a 50/50 proposition in that he's lying or telling the truth. The chances are overwhelming that he's either lying or mistaken.
Lying or mistaken, or he's a patsy. I'm thinking maybe he's a patsy, today, Thursday the 8th. I do not think he can be real, since being real would mean he'd researched the subject and knew the classical UFO mythos story and WOULD KNOW that he had to avoid being lumped-in with that. He should know all of the classic UFO sightings and encounters. He's an expert. So, he should know the mythos and why he must not allow himself to be associated with it. So, I don't know, but he's either a good actor, or he's sincere and has been very carefully fed by some very bad (but not too smart) actors.
All there is is some guy saying he knows things and he's happy to tell people what they want to hear. No evidence of anything. Because... reasons.
You really don't understand that the military puts idiots like this on "task forces" to keep them away from anything critical. Meanwhile they tell them how important they are until they can finally get rid of them. You would do well to actually check your sources before spreading nonsense like this.
That just means that his narrative is internally consistent. Now substitute aliens with Bigfoot, chupacabra, or Dracula, and we're in exactly the same place.
This brings up a good point. Falsifiability. If it can't be false, it can't be true. This concept is a Karl Popper (philosopher) thing widely accepted in science. For those of us who look at the strange and not-understood parts of the world, a tale that can't be disproved is, well, telling. That's a tell. Like a gambler revealing their intent.
Yes. Extraordinary claims, certainly should anticipate extraordinary questioning. BUT!!!! He's just replaying a weak-tea version of the UFO "Majestic 12" Area 51 "crashed saucer retrieval" "reverse engineering" story. And, he makes no effort at all to distinguish himself from that tale. If he were serious, he would have to make himself visibly different. Instead, he's just an update on the Bob Lazar (Google) story which was ripped-off from the mythos. Watch him have all the same holes in his story as Lazar. Really hard to explain how that would happen. It could be possible, but I'm not holding my breath. I still want to meet the aliens.
My father was a 30 yr Air Force vet (1950-1980), the most no nonsense man I’ve ever known. He told me once he believed the government DID have alien crafts and were hiding them from us. PS he was a lifelong Republican but would have hated trump, and surely changed parties.
My father was a USAF navigator during that same time period - also no nonsense and very honorable. We also were stationed in Roswell when I was very young. He absolutely believed he had seen things on this flights for which there was no rational explanation. We would ask if they were 'flying saucers' and his reply was always 'Anything's possible'. This guy's story rings true to me and glad he has the courage to come forward.
Indeed. About 25 yrs ago, a fellow babyboomer friend said that his VietNam war Air Force fighter pilot father told him as a kid (around 1960) that fellow airmen talked about the Roswell incident and aliens as a reality.
About 25 yrs ago, a fellow babyboomer friend said that his VietNam war Air Force fighter pilot father told him as a kid (around 1960) that fellow airmen talked about the Roswell aliens as a reality. PS Yes re your father and GOP; after The Donald was elected, our local Democratic Club got several former Republicans as new members :-)
Whistleblower's story seems cribbed from the decades-old Majestic/Area 51 mythos. It has the same gaps, the same credibility of giant conspiracy problem, etc. I'm a bit of an expert on the subject, and this is not even original. The outlets that ran this story appear unable to vet such things. A former Inspector General or this or that confirms the story. Yeah, and either the person won't be found, or it's another case like the whistleblower where he didn't have real access to anything and is relying on hearsay. The "crashed ship retrieval" stuff is straight out of the old story. We do not, today, expect biological aliens to show up in metal ships. Tiny probes, sure, could happen.
Whistleblower was on an authorized federal UAP task force that was denied access to certain evidence. Hard to crib from decades ago when this former top federal intel official was literally *just* on this task force.
Whistleblower has been vetted, testified under oath and filed an official IG complaint. He’s now legally obligated to tell the truth. There is not precedent for this.
UFO'S and aliens consumed me as a young girl. I read all the material a available in the late 50's and early 60's. But, if I seriously consider that we have much "alien" physical evidence, well, you're really going to gave to show me!
How could these supposedly, highly advanced sky pilots travel allllll the way to our insignificant little blip in the universe , allllll that wY, defying time and space, and then crash here???? Be captured here? Seriously, folks. I gave up childish fantasies decades ago.
Note that non human intelligence not extraterrestrial is used. Perhaps they live here whoever they are and always have. Perhaps on the 80% of the planet that is deep under water? How much of the sea floor has been explored? Those tic tac craft in the videos seem to go in and out of the water with ease.
What if.. the presumed dead alien bodies recovered were already long deceased aliens that were intentionally sent by other living aliens so we could study them. A weird first contact, sure haha
I was right there with you as a kid. I still want to meet the aliens, but this is just the same old story with the same old excuses. "The Men in Black took my evidence." No, the aliens aren't coming here in fragile metal ships and crashing. The whistleblower doesn't do what he'd have to do to be credible. He can't let himself be associated with the decades old tale. But, he doesn't even seem to know about it. So, he's a dope, or a dupe. I'm leaning toward both, actually. I'll be very happy if I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.
This is some guy with an over-inflated sense of his own importance and ability to understand data, who likes a good conspiracy theory who has just destroyed his credibility on national television.
It's not the first time that has happened to someone, and won't be the last.
He has no evidence, and we know a conspiracy such as this is impossible to keep secret this long, so this is nothing. Stick to reality, as much as we want to imagine some aliens coming to take us away from all this (or to take Trump away from us to stick in a preservation tank as an exhibit).
Fair enough, Chris. My point was that he was a top intel official who was then appointed to an authorized federal UAP task force that was denied access to evidence it was legally entitled to. "Over-inflated sense of his own importance" feels counterfactual given that he was chosen to be on this historic task force, no?
The entire commission was, which is why he became a federal whistleblower. He is now reporting on the event to Congress and has been found credible to the ICIG. It was not "him" who was denied anything, it was the task force. Honestly I feel like you have an end-result you really want to get to here. My only goal is to stay open-minded.
Maybe he was denied because where he was digging had nothing to do with aliens but with secret work which he was not authorized to see. He says that 'emperical data' suggests that the government has alien craft and aliens. Those words don't mean what he's suggesting they mean. He has no empirical data.
Yes, I have a very high standard of evidence that would convince me there's anything to alien stories, true, based on prior claims all being bad, and general lack of plausibility. I think it's open minded, but not so open minded my brain falls out :)
I really hope it's true though, and we have evidence of other life out there. I love that sort of sci-fi.
I find it interesting that all this is coming out now and being presented more seriously. For the last half century the gov't has insisted that anything UFO related was "weather balloons." This is a real change. I wonder if more is coming that they feel they can't possibly silence.
Welcome to ufology, Seth. People are hardwired by social engineering projects working with inherent cognitive bias, going a way back, to perceive this issue in a certain way.
Guess there always will be some people who make up their minds about something startling like the existence of aliens and alien crafts without waiting for the final outcome. I'm keeping an open mind.
This isn't happening in a vacuum. Could it be true? Sure: show me some actual evidence. There's a difference between being open minded and hopelessly gullible.
Seth-firstly, mad props and respect to you for your journalistic integrity and your Proof trilogy. It sounds from what you’ve written that you have not heretofore had an abiding interest in this subject. I am still agnostic, but have been reading about this topic since 1966. (Not a typo).
Nothing this whistleblower is saying is inconsistent with US Army Colonel Philip J. Corso's 1997 book 'The Day After Roswell'. He waited until the end of his life to go public, and makes a compelling case. For decades, there has been much public testimony from scores of military and commercial pilots and many NASA Astronauts (Gordon Cooper, James McDivitt, Edgar Mitchell, Scott Kelley to name a few). This goes all the way back to Marine Air Corps Major Donald Kehoe in the '50s.
The problem I always have with all of this is that the most credible witnesses are from the very same government organizations that are simultaneously allegedly covering it up. The military was/is only too happy to have civilians believe top secret experimental craft are from somewhere else. This is not to say it isn't possible, but we have been hearing this, in the truest sense of the word, *literally* for over half a century. The longer these supposed revelations are teased, the more I tend to agree with what Michael Gowski wrote here earlier about “far right new age/ disclosure/ ufo people in military intelligence (with) long histor(ies) of … making alien “disclosures” to breed mistrust in liberal democracy.”
I know that you are also aware that we are in the throes of a GIGANTIC mis/disinformation war, one that you have been raising the alarm about for years. To be honest with you, I never heard of 'News Nation' before tonight, so I am automatically skeptical.
Having said all that, do read Colonel Corso’s book - it’s hard to dismiss outright. And thank you again for all of your hard work.
PS: 65 years ago was an eerily similar assertion by Major Kehoe. Watch the Mike Wallace interview:
Michael, you undoubtedly know much more on this topic than me(!) :-) Yes, I am just compiling as much reliable information about this latest report as I can. I realize there is a massive, voluminous, nuanced history behind all of this, and admit that I have never been a ufologist (amateur or otherwise). I am trying to be clear about what I do or do not know and do or do not find credible to discuss as an initial matter as I tread on ground on which I cannot claim to be an expert.
PS: NewsNation is the home of Dan Abrams, Chris Cuomo, Ashlee Banfield—essentially, anyone who was formerly at CNN. It is a large operation and I have been well aware of it for many years now (though I will agree it is not of the size of, say, CNN). One reason I listed all the media outlets covering this story around the world is that it helps underscore that none wanted to be *first* but they all wanted to cover it. Note that Kean and Blumenthal did most of their reporting on UAPs for The New York Times, and only went to Debrief when the Times did not want to publish *this*—despite Kean and Blumenthal deeming it to be at exactly the same level of sourcing as their work for the NYT. NewsNation got involved only as the first interview with Grusch following him going public, and my guess is that they got the story because of Coulthart (who had a relationship with Kean and Blumenthal that appears to have predated all of this). So this is a NYT-level story that simply got its first *TV* airing on NewsNation because of eldritch networking relationships that really do not touch on the content or accuracy of the story at all. FWIW, NewsNation has already asked to interview me on-air three times in 2023, so they have an interest in long-form independent investigative journalism that exceeds the major cable players (who are more or less terrified of it).
“To be clear -- the Washington Post did not pass on our UAP story. Leslie and I took it to the Debrief because we were under growing pressure to publish it very quickly. The Post needed more time and we couldn't wait.”
I’ve spoken of ‘the timeline’ in my previous post here. - Grusch et al weren’t expected to be coming out until later in the year. My guess is that they “couldn’t wait” (1) because of looming political distractions - imminent indictments of Trump & GOP allies, Ukraine etc., - and (2), more immediately, the pressing need to preempt Stephen Greer’s ‘Disclosure Conference’ at the National Press Club next Monday (June 12th):
..where Greer intends to reveal an “extensive Military, Corporate and Top-Secret Witness list; Top Secret Facilities..” etc., - Greer was once highly regarded but, as happens to many in this field, it has all taken a toll on his mental acuity. Anything connected to him now is seen to be more hindrance than help and likely to sabotage ongoing efforts. Apparently, Grusch issued a statement yesterday, through 𝐕𝐢𝐧𝐧𝐢𝐞 𝐀𝐝𝐚𝐦𝐬, distancing himself from the Steven Greer show -
“I took my job very seriously, and early on, I allowed various individuals that alleged they had information to speak their truth as part of my evaluation process. I have not been mentored by anyone, and my public disclosure has been done independently under my own free will. I emphatically request that Steven Greer cease using my name to promote his personal agenda”
Re: Nat Kobitz - Ross Coulthart has spoken of his discussions with him for several years and I think they’re in his book ‘In Plain Sight’. - Unless you’re prepared to wade through dozens of podcast to get up to speed, it is required reading on this topic ..as is ‘Skinwalkers At The Pentagon’ (Lakatski, Kelleher & Knapp). It covers the formation of AAWSAP then AATIP & Lue Elizondo, former colleague of David Grusch.
It would also be helpful to look through the ‘Wilson-Davis Notes’ - entered into the Congressional Record by Rep. Mike Gallagher (after being briefed by Dr Garry Nolan) at last year’s UAP hearing:
The notes refer to the purported discovery in the 1990s of a clandestine UAP crash retrieval and reverse-engineering program, outsourced by DOD to private contractors, whose evasion from accountability was supported at the highest levels.
Finally, please reemphasise to all concerned that:
# AARO won’t have found what Grusch saw because no one on AARO has the appropriate level of clearances that Grusch had nor are they availing themselves of Title 50 authorities in order to look.
# For those demanding to see “evidence”, aside from the fact that it’s heavily classified, consider the context: Long before his public appearance this week, Grusch submitted his claims in an Inspector General complaint that was presented to Congress under oath for which he is legally liable.
"Credible and urgent." = Grusch's resume alone would get him thru the "credible" gate. The specific nature of his complaint makes it, by statutory definition, an "urgent concern," requiring notifications. These are not judgments by IC IG on merits, which are under investigation.
Great comment. Full of basic 'must read' info. Was it Gary Nolan who was associated with the Wilson documents or Richard Dolan? I get the two names confused.
Garry Nolan (the scientist) said in an interview that he helped prepare Rep. Gallagher for the UAP hearing in congress and assured him of the veracity of the notes’ content. He’s done a lot of interviews so please don’t ask me which one! .. comparatively recently though ..within the last year.
Richard Dolan (ufologist/historian) has done some brilliant deep-dives on his youtube channel into Wilson-Davis, which can be reliably(ish) traced back to having been discovered in the estate of the late NASA astronaut, Edgar Mitchell. The author, Eric Davis won’t comment ..at least not publicly.
And I’ve just kicked myself.. no idea why I didn’t remember to include this before but you’ve jogged my memory. THE indispensable guide to the history of how the UAP and the intelligence community intersect is ‘Loose Threads’, freely available at:
As a babyboomer, here's what I've seen happen in recent decades. Since 1980, ignoring the separation of church and state, the GOP politically empowered for votes to take/hold power a voting bloc of a type of (conservative) Christianity that believes in Biblical literalism and that God created Life only on Earth (there were non-human "heavenly beings" "up there" but not aliens [i.e. something akin to humans]). It is heresy, anti-God, and on the side of Satan to believe otherwise.
It does not surprise me that some would use a credible exotic craft announcement to say, "See how Satanic the Left is!!" Of course, one must keep in mind that today's GOP is so far to the right, that anyone to their left is a Commie Socialist atheist liberal. I remember years ago when some in Arizona started to call hard right John McCain a "liberal", I knew then that the GOP could be on a downward spiral over this. (I could not always agree politically with McCain, who was what was then termed hard right, but I considered him a patriot, unlike today's even further right GOP.)
It's been my opinion for some time that if there are indeed being visited, it's entirely possible that they've been here for 100s of thousands or even millions of years. On a galactic time scale, that's still just a blink of an eye. I speculate that the pilots of these craft or whatever they are would probably be artificial intelligence or synthetic life.
My boomer parents and I were talking a couple weeks ago about the AI revolution we're living through right now, and how it is humanity's next 'great filter' event. I speculated at the time that perhaps humanity's creation of superintelligent AI would be the event that would trigger an alien entity to make first contact. I'm similarly wondering now if the government has been waiting for the moment when our own technology has reached a point where the idea of an alien AI is not such an mind breaking proposition to the populous.
I can't believe I even just typed those words in earnest. It would seem we really are on the cusp of a Star Trek future (fingers crossed)
Amazing to hear someone else having exactly my thoughts on this.
AI superintelligence is the key. It wouldn’t be practical for biological intelligences like ourselves to explore this unfashionable end of the galaxy. Or any meaningful part of the galaxy. So I think machine superintelligences must be the drivers of this, if this is real.
I’d argue that if it is possible for biology to create a machine super AI, then yes, it has already happened somewhere in the galaxy, a long long time ago. The AI escaped containment, and descendent machine AIs are here now, monitoring, maybe since before the dinosaurs.
Why?
Reading Nick Nostrum’s book, Superintelligence, seems important here.
People need to start by imagining an AI superintelligence escaping containment from an alien civilization in this galaxy, say, 300 MYA. What would it do?
The underlying goal of any such AI would be survival. No matter what bigger goal it might have, it first must survive.
So it creates subservient AI-driven, self-replicating spacecraft to explore the galaxy in search of other super AIs or biological life on the road to creating super AIs -- because other super AIs would be the only viable threat to itself. That and avoiding supernovae.
Our galaxy has a diameter of ~100M light years. If the self replicating craft can achieve some sizable fraction of light speed, they could arrive at EVERY detectable planet in the galaxy in perhaps a few hundred million years. If there are ways to bypass the light speed limit, then much much faster.
It would help if they could communicate over vast distances if the plan was to inform the initial super AI. Maybe some quantum entanglement based communication strategy. But who knows what’s possible.
So forget green men everyone. If there are alien intelligences here, they’re most likely superintelligent machines.
If biological organisms were required for some reason on-site, the machines might, basically, 3D print them, as scientists are trying to do with tissues today.
And, so we do not have to be particularly special in the galaxy to earn a visit. Our planet is in a Goldilocks zone. That would be enough to be targeted, even if they didn’t monitor every single planet in the galaxy.
Mark -- interesting stuff. Do you have other thoughts about this?
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. It's worth noting that most, if not all, of the media sources running with the story aren't known for journalistic standards. If anything this guy claims is remotely true, it is not only a massive shift in human history, it would upend a sizeable chunk of the laws of physics.
Thank you for covering this story. Cognitive dissonance with this topic is a major issue. Most commenting her likely didn’t read any of the reporting and instead saw a headline that doesn’t fit their bias and reject it. Regardless of the outcome this is a major story.
Seth, I respect you, but I think you got played. There’s a lot of far right new age/ disclosure/ ufo people in military intelligence ( read men who stare at goats), and that inspector general covered for the DOD response to Jan 6
ME: The Pentagon created a UAP Task Force and this former top U.S. intelligence official was selected for it. During the course of his federal duties, his Task Force was denied evidence by a heretofore-unknown DoD UAP-retrieval project. Grusch and his Task Force thereafter collected documentary and testimonial evidence of not just the existence of this Pentagon subunit but the fact that the subunit has collected multiple craft of nonhuman origin. He issued a report to the Intelligence Community Inspector General and was found to be "credible." He has now supplied a mountain of classified intelligence to Congress. The White House is refusing to answer questions on this topic, having previously confessed that it has detected hundreds of objects operating at beyond human capacity in the last 25 years.
It was a comment. I’m not going to write an essay on the long history of far right intelligence officers making alien “disclosures” to breed mistrust in liberal democracy. Please understand I mean no disrespect. Your work is incredible. But this has all the markings of a far right hoax.
Unidentified aerial phenomena doesn't mean alien. The navy/AF hadn't shown anything that isn't explainable without invoking aliens. Doesn't mean aliens aren't visiting us, just that no credible evidence has been presented. Read Flim Flam or Demon Haunted World to gain a different perspective on these things. Love your work; agree with Michael above that you've off base here. A better story might be looking into why the media got fooled again.
The timing of his disclosure is really the only big ? in my mind and his statement something along the lines we have people on the committee who have the ability to do something with the information. Although I have had some interest in this topic my personal opinion right now is: 1) The human encounter descriptions with aliens are very consistently similar to the extent the person describes being violated and having sperm/eggs retrieved by some process the individual did not understand. 2) Why would we think we were the only intelligent species in this universe let alone the billions of others?, 3) the fact that these other individuals are not discrediting him causes me to wonder if something possibly bad is imminent and needs action now. Sounds like I am all in however, I do remain open to all possible explanations.
1. Common abduction stories speak to the synthetic nature of the phenomenon. The fact that most described aliens are bipedal humanoids also suggests an earth origin to the story. Social contagion, history channel, pop culture and various cults reinforce these narrative forms. 2. The probability of other life in the universe is high. The probability of them getting here is lower given the constraints of physics. The probability of them looking like us or being able to communicate with us is very very low. 3. The test of whether this is real will be when this guy’s sources come out. Will they be real scientists or quantum mystics from Gaia tv and history channel?
Fish and dolphins are entirely different species, far far apart, taxonomically, yet they resemble each other. If these beings evolved on a similar planet as humans they could very well be similar. You don't get far without a few digits, an opposable thumb and bipedal stance to free up those arms. Convergent evolution explains it.
Or they could be AI as a few have mentioned already.
Good point. Convergent evolution is a well established phenomenon. However, this doesn’t mean it’s inevitable or even likely intelligent life would be like us. Convergent evolution happens because environments make an evolutionary strategy pay off. There’s also a common evolutionary lineage to some extent between fish and dolphins, both emerging from a common Cambrian form. It is far less likely for a mammal to converge to an anthropoid like form than a fish like form.
Different environments would lead to different outcomes. What intelligent life would have emerged (if any) without the asteroid? Also look at advanced cephalopods. A form of rudimentary intelligence emerged without any resemblance to us. In the future, super intelligent cephalopods might evolve and even surpass us. Now think of the universe. How many possibilities are there with all the possible environments? Why would we expect the ones that succeed in getting across the universe are like us.
1) human abduction stories are more easily explaining by dreams. It used to be angels and demons, now it's aliens. A tell tale sign is the names that the aliens supposedly have. In the person's native language the names tend to be exotic. Yet for a non speaker the names sound obviously like something from that language (japanese abductees give nonsense but japanese sounding names, Spanish abductees give nonsense but Spanish sounding names, etc.) This speaks to the encounter being a product of the mind. The description of these encounters also changes with the cultural shift in our expectations of what aliens are due to media depictions.
2) I don't think that we're the only intelligent species in the universe, not even in our galaxy. But space is really really big. There's no reason to think, without compelling evidence, that we're being visited. And no, eye witnesses testimony is not compelling evidence.
3) I'm open to the (extremely unlikely possiblity) that this is real, but it will take evidence to convince me. I'll give you 10:1 odds that credible evidence will not be presented.
There are many elements at work here, mind is a huge part of it. From the many accounts I've read it appears that some of these species are far superior to humans in the mental environment, and can manipulate us along the lines of our own imaginations and cultural expectations. It's a feedback system. The locus of control issue is what confuses those with limited experience in this area.
None of that is required. We dream, we have sleep paralysis, etc. There's no reason to invoke super intelligent aliens to explain what is wholly explainable by the human condition. Doesn't mean that aliens aren't doing it, but without credible evidence of such, I'll default to human nature explanations.
Personally, it seems that if this were true, Trump would have held a rally at Roswell and blurted it out unprovoked by now.
The whistleblower says the existence and operations of this group were kept secret from an authorized federal UAP task force. He seems to be implying that the White House may not have known.
All of this is merely speculation without solid evidence. Sure, someone was denied access to -- what, exactly? And a secret group did -- things we don't know anything about 'cause they were concealed?
Which is more likely to be the case overall; Visitors from space whose mere existence requires totally scrapping our knowledge of physics (yet who have somehow managed never to be seen in public), or another UFO hoax in a long, long train of UFO hoaxes?
It’s also possible he was victim to a long GRU disinfo operation.
It’s strange how UFO/ Alien mania began at the dawn of the Cold War, isn’t it?
So the hundreds of UAPs operating at nonhuman capacities that the Navy admits it has captured on video over the last two decades are...
Just complete that sentence for me.
Some of that Navy stuff turns out to be natural after non-military sensors people look at the data. I wish they had seen a saucer. I'm going to point you at my source for this from yesterday. You can search for "gofast." https://computer.rip/2023-06-07-something-up-there---nasa-and-uaps.html
Unexplained Aerial Phenomena is an extremely broad category. Mundane things can easily fit that description when people get poor visual contact and poor sensor information about things they see.
Well Seth, I’ll wait for y’all to unlock the secret bunker where they keep ‘em. Like Geraldo.
Military systems not designed for this. Search for "gofast" for some video analysis done by the new UAP task force on one of the Navy cases.
https://computer.rip/2023-06-07-something-up-there---nasa-and-uaps.html
Military is not science. They're not trained to look at parallax, etc. It's all designed to lock-on and shoot. I'm a cold-war brat from the radar research end. My parents met in the Rad Lab, building 6 at MIT during WWII.
A malignant narcissist would never embrace sharing information that there is a power greater than them and they don’t have control over it or even understand it .
No way Trump would have been told. Cripes, what a nightmare that could have been.
That is why I am skeptical. I read the Trump theorem, which has three parts.
1. Trump would have asked about aliens.
2. The military could not lie to him.
3. Trump could not keep a secret.
Do some basic follow up logic. The president has to go to the military and demand something specific and is told simply that there is nothing there. What's he going to do about it? Call the military? Tell them they're lying. For that-- he would need proof, right? See how this works?
Which is why tfg wasn't in the loop about that group.
Or the deep state was keeping it from him................................
<laughing meme>
Anyone who works in government that does stuff Trump doesn't like. Especially obeying the law when Trump wants to order people to do unconstitutional stuff.
It’s about time we had some actual disclosure about the government’s true level of knowledge about alien craft instead of these ridiculous Tic Tac cockpit videos etc. that show nothing definitive and let the Navy/government persist in its denials of knowledge about UFOs/UAP. The science and tech we’ve “enjoyed” over the past 60 years is horse-and- buggy science compared to what is actually known from reverse engineering alien technology. Global warming by fossil fuels continued due to govt and industry suppression of alien tech. This concerns the biggest story since the A-bomb.
I'll say 0 because there's still 0 evidence of alien craft on earth. Wish it weren't so.
Yes, reverse engineering can involve what humans do not yet know or know how to successfully use. At first I wanted to believe that the TicTac was an encounter of an alien nature...quite exciting!...but when I looked at where the Navy carrier was, it was in an area off the Pacific coast used for Navy exercises. That made me realize that the TicTac could easily have been one of our human reverse engineered craft taken out of black project temporarily to see what would happen in a non-top secret human encounter.
Like what happened with the usual black program aircraft that would be flown at night and then at some point in daylight and then finally officially revealed to exist. Like the B2 Stealth Bomber and the F-117 (I remember when one crashed in the Sierras in the 1980s, before it was made public...that was one hush hush retrieval, combing the ground for *every single piece* of wreckage, so as not to reveal what new material was used to make it ).
Does anybody find the vast technological advances we have made in the past 80 years strange? Maybe we reverse engineered computer chips or any of the many advances we see in materials science. Modern man has been around for at least 80k years. What makes our lifetime so special?
Yes, we do live in amazing tech and material times. "What makes our lifetime so special?" can be said by those living in certain times of advances...printing press etc. I think WW2 was an incentive to quickly develop technologies, besides working to develop the non-conventional atomic bomb. Post WW2 came with a steady stream of advances, many needed for human space travel. Advances build on prior advances, add in breakthroughs, which can be done without exotic tech or materials.
As a babyboomer, I was promised as a child, via books, cartoons and movies, flying cars, space travel as common as airplane travel, etc by now haha. One of my first childrens books with drawings and reading showed a family traveling to space for a vacation, complete with contemporary luggage!
I think that exotic tech/materials are only as useful tech-wise to humans in the time of human development in which they are discovered. The last 80 years of human tech development is a time in which humans could finally begin to process and research found exotic tech. Like the obelisk in 2001: A Space Odyssey :-).
Ours is indeed quite the time to live in when we can at least come with a floor of knowledge to begin to understand and work with exotic tech/materials! But, hell, I'll die before I get my flying car or vacation in space as easy as getting on an airplane haha!
The guy still doesn't provide any proof. He might as well say that the US government is keeping a half dozen angels under lock and key. Extraordinary claims and all that.
I neither believe nor disbelieve him. But I do think the interview explains quite clearly why the evidence is not (and could not be) in his physical possession. He is not vague on that point.
I'll be blunt: I don't believe him unless he provides evidence. This isn't a 50/50 proposition in that he's lying or telling the truth. The chances are overwhelming that he's either lying or mistaken.
Lying or mistaken, or he's a patsy. I'm thinking maybe he's a patsy, today, Thursday the 8th. I do not think he can be real, since being real would mean he'd researched the subject and knew the classical UFO mythos story and WOULD KNOW that he had to avoid being lumped-in with that. He should know all of the classic UFO sightings and encounters. He's an expert. So, he should know the mythos and why he must not allow himself to be associated with it. So, I don't know, but he's either a good actor, or he's sincere and has been very carefully fed by some very bad (but not too smart) actors.
All there is is some guy saying he knows things and he's happy to tell people what they want to hear. No evidence of anything. Because... reasons.
You really don't understand that the military puts idiots like this on "task forces" to keep them away from anything critical. Meanwhile they tell them how important they are until they can finally get rid of them. You would do well to actually check your sources before spreading nonsense like this.
Yep. This guy is not really vetted or maybe the outlets carrying the story are letting conspirators pose as verifying his story.
That just means that his narrative is internally consistent. Now substitute aliens with Bigfoot, chupacabra, or Dracula, and we're in exactly the same place.
This brings up a good point. Falsifiability. If it can't be false, it can't be true. This concept is a Karl Popper (philosopher) thing widely accepted in science. For those of us who look at the strange and not-understood parts of the world, a tale that can't be disproved is, well, telling. That's a tell. Like a gambler revealing their intent.
Yes. Extraordinary claims, certainly should anticipate extraordinary questioning. BUT!!!! He's just replaying a weak-tea version of the UFO "Majestic 12" Area 51 "crashed saucer retrieval" "reverse engineering" story. And, he makes no effort at all to distinguish himself from that tale. If he were serious, he would have to make himself visibly different. Instead, he's just an update on the Bob Lazar (Google) story which was ripped-off from the mythos. Watch him have all the same holes in his story as Lazar. Really hard to explain how that would happen. It could be possible, but I'm not holding my breath. I still want to meet the aliens.
My father was a 30 yr Air Force vet (1950-1980), the most no nonsense man I’ve ever known. He told me once he believed the government DID have alien crafts and were hiding them from us. PS he was a lifelong Republican but would have hated trump, and surely changed parties.
My father was a USAF navigator during that same time period - also no nonsense and very honorable. We also were stationed in Roswell when I was very young. He absolutely believed he had seen things on this flights for which there was no rational explanation. We would ask if they were 'flying saucers' and his reply was always 'Anything's possible'. This guy's story rings true to me and glad he has the courage to come forward.
Indeed. About 25 yrs ago, a fellow babyboomer friend said that his VietNam war Air Force fighter pilot father told him as a kid (around 1960) that fellow airmen talked about the Roswell incident and aliens as a reality.
About 25 yrs ago, a fellow babyboomer friend said that his VietNam war Air Force fighter pilot father told him as a kid (around 1960) that fellow airmen talked about the Roswell aliens as a reality. PS Yes re your father and GOP; after The Donald was elected, our local Democratic Club got several former Republicans as new members :-)
Whistleblower's story seems cribbed from the decades-old Majestic/Area 51 mythos. It has the same gaps, the same credibility of giant conspiracy problem, etc. I'm a bit of an expert on the subject, and this is not even original. The outlets that ran this story appear unable to vet such things. A former Inspector General or this or that confirms the story. Yeah, and either the person won't be found, or it's another case like the whistleblower where he didn't have real access to anything and is relying on hearsay. The "crashed ship retrieval" stuff is straight out of the old story. We do not, today, expect biological aliens to show up in metal ships. Tiny probes, sure, could happen.
Whistleblower was on an authorized federal UAP task force that was denied access to certain evidence. Hard to crib from decades ago when this former top federal intel official was literally *just* on this task force.
Whistleblower has been vetted, testified under oath and filed an official IG complaint. He’s now legally obligated to tell the truth. There is not precedent for this.
By his own admission he had no first hand knowledge. Doesn't matter how much he was vetted.
UFO'S and aliens consumed me as a young girl. I read all the material a available in the late 50's and early 60's. But, if I seriously consider that we have much "alien" physical evidence, well, you're really going to gave to show me!
How could these supposedly, highly advanced sky pilots travel allllll the way to our insignificant little blip in the universe , allllll that wY, defying time and space, and then crash here???? Be captured here? Seriously, folks. I gave up childish fantasies decades ago.
Note that non human intelligence not extraterrestrial is used. Perhaps they live here whoever they are and always have. Perhaps on the 80% of the planet that is deep under water? How much of the sea floor has been explored? Those tic tac craft in the videos seem to go in and out of the water with ease.
That's the "The Abyss" story. It's a good one. Unsupported, but very cool.
What if.. the presumed dead alien bodies recovered were already long deceased aliens that were intentionally sent by other living aliens so we could study them. A weird first contact, sure haha
That’s why I think it’s machine intelligence scouring the galaxy. There’s no reason for biology to pick us. Or spend millions of years in space.
I was right there with you as a kid. I still want to meet the aliens, but this is just the same old story with the same old excuses. "The Men in Black took my evidence." No, the aliens aren't coming here in fragile metal ships and crashing. The whistleblower doesn't do what he'd have to do to be credible. He can't let himself be associated with the decades old tale. But, he doesn't even seem to know about it. So, he's a dope, or a dupe. I'm leaning toward both, actually. I'll be very happy if I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.
This is some guy with an over-inflated sense of his own importance and ability to understand data, who likes a good conspiracy theory who has just destroyed his credibility on national television.
It's not the first time that has happened to someone, and won't be the last.
He has no evidence, and we know a conspiracy such as this is impossible to keep secret this long, so this is nothing. Stick to reality, as much as we want to imagine some aliens coming to take us away from all this (or to take Trump away from us to stick in a preservation tank as an exhibit).
I did not come to that conclusion upon watching the video, but then, I cannot tell if you even spent the time to watch the video.
That hurts. Yes, I watched it.
With preconceived notions of its credibility, I do admit, but they didn't change on viewing it.
Fair enough, Chris. My point was that he was a top intel official who was then appointed to an authorized federal UAP task force that was denied access to evidence it was legally entitled to. "Over-inflated sense of his own importance" feels counterfactual given that he was chosen to be on this historic task force, no?
I figure he can't be that important in this regard if he can be denied access to evidence.
The entire commission was, which is why he became a federal whistleblower. He is now reporting on the event to Congress and has been found credible to the ICIG. It was not "him" who was denied anything, it was the task force. Honestly I feel like you have an end-result you really want to get to here. My only goal is to stay open-minded.
Maybe he was denied because where he was digging had nothing to do with aliens but with secret work which he was not authorized to see. He says that 'emperical data' suggests that the government has alien craft and aliens. Those words don't mean what he's suggesting they mean. He has no empirical data.
Yes, I have a very high standard of evidence that would convince me there's anything to alien stories, true, based on prior claims all being bad, and general lack of plausibility. I think it's open minded, but not so open minded my brain falls out :)
I really hope it's true though, and we have evidence of other life out there. I love that sort of sci-fi.
I find it interesting that all this is coming out now and being presented more seriously. For the last half century the gov't has insisted that anything UFO related was "weather balloons." This is a real change. I wonder if more is coming that they feel they can't possibly silence.
Welcome to ufology, Seth. People are hardwired by social engineering projects working with inherent cognitive bias, going a way back, to perceive this issue in a certain way.
Guess there always will be some people who make up their minds about something startling like the existence of aliens and alien crafts without waiting for the final outcome. I'm keeping an open mind.
This isn't happening in a vacuum. Could it be true? Sure: show me some actual evidence. There's a difference between being open minded and hopelessly gullible.
Seth-firstly, mad props and respect to you for your journalistic integrity and your Proof trilogy. It sounds from what you’ve written that you have not heretofore had an abiding interest in this subject. I am still agnostic, but have been reading about this topic since 1966. (Not a typo).
Nothing this whistleblower is saying is inconsistent with US Army Colonel Philip J. Corso's 1997 book 'The Day After Roswell'. He waited until the end of his life to go public, and makes a compelling case. For decades, there has been much public testimony from scores of military and commercial pilots and many NASA Astronauts (Gordon Cooper, James McDivitt, Edgar Mitchell, Scott Kelley to name a few). This goes all the way back to Marine Air Corps Major Donald Kehoe in the '50s.
The problem I always have with all of this is that the most credible witnesses are from the very same government organizations that are simultaneously allegedly covering it up. The military was/is only too happy to have civilians believe top secret experimental craft are from somewhere else. This is not to say it isn't possible, but we have been hearing this, in the truest sense of the word, *literally* for over half a century. The longer these supposed revelations are teased, the more I tend to agree with what Michael Gowski wrote here earlier about “far right new age/ disclosure/ ufo people in military intelligence (with) long histor(ies) of … making alien “disclosures” to breed mistrust in liberal democracy.”
I know that you are also aware that we are in the throes of a GIGANTIC mis/disinformation war, one that you have been raising the alarm about for years. To be honest with you, I never heard of 'News Nation' before tonight, so I am automatically skeptical.
Having said all that, do read Colonel Corso’s book - it’s hard to dismiss outright. And thank you again for all of your hard work.
PS: 65 years ago was an eerily similar assertion by Major Kehoe. Watch the Mike Wallace interview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ-Uwb_8PHk
Michael, you undoubtedly know much more on this topic than me(!) :-) Yes, I am just compiling as much reliable information about this latest report as I can. I realize there is a massive, voluminous, nuanced history behind all of this, and admit that I have never been a ufologist (amateur or otherwise). I am trying to be clear about what I do or do not know and do or do not find credible to discuss as an initial matter as I tread on ground on which I cannot claim to be an expert.
PS: NewsNation is the home of Dan Abrams, Chris Cuomo, Ashlee Banfield—essentially, anyone who was formerly at CNN. It is a large operation and I have been well aware of it for many years now (though I will agree it is not of the size of, say, CNN). One reason I listed all the media outlets covering this story around the world is that it helps underscore that none wanted to be *first* but they all wanted to cover it. Note that Kean and Blumenthal did most of their reporting on UAPs for The New York Times, and only went to Debrief when the Times did not want to publish *this*—despite Kean and Blumenthal deeming it to be at exactly the same level of sourcing as their work for the NYT. NewsNation got involved only as the first interview with Grusch following him going public, and my guess is that they got the story because of Coulthart (who had a relationship with Kean and Blumenthal that appears to have predated all of this). So this is a NYT-level story that simply got its first *TV* airing on NewsNation because of eldritch networking relationships that really do not touch on the content or accuracy of the story at all. FWIW, NewsNation has already asked to interview me on-air three times in 2023, so they have an interest in long-form independent investigative journalism that exceeds the major cable players (who are more or less terrified of it).
Ralph Blumenthal, on Twitter, said:
“To be clear -- the Washington Post did not pass on our UAP story. Leslie and I took it to the Debrief because we were under growing pressure to publish it very quickly. The Post needed more time and we couldn't wait.”
https://twitter.com/ralphblu/status/1665809626200264705?s=20
I’ve spoken of ‘the timeline’ in my previous post here. - Grusch et al weren’t expected to be coming out until later in the year. My guess is that they “couldn’t wait” (1) because of looming political distractions - imminent indictments of Trump & GOP allies, Ukraine etc., - and (2), more immediately, the pressing need to preempt Stephen Greer’s ‘Disclosure Conference’ at the National Press Club next Monday (June 12th):
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/historic-press-event-on-uapufo-disclosure-in-washington-dc-301835879.html
..where Greer intends to reveal an “extensive Military, Corporate and Top-Secret Witness list; Top Secret Facilities..” etc., - Greer was once highly regarded but, as happens to many in this field, it has all taken a toll on his mental acuity. Anything connected to him now is seen to be more hindrance than help and likely to sabotage ongoing efforts. Apparently, Grusch issued a statement yesterday, through 𝐕𝐢𝐧𝐧𝐢𝐞 𝐀𝐝𝐚𝐦𝐬, distancing himself from the Steven Greer show -
“I took my job very seriously, and early on, I allowed various individuals that alleged they had information to speak their truth as part of my evaluation process. I have not been mentored by anyone, and my public disclosure has been done independently under my own free will. I emphatically request that Steven Greer cease using my name to promote his personal agenda”
https://twitter.com/disclosureteam_/status/1666085217009008642?s=20
Re: Nat Kobitz - Ross Coulthart has spoken of his discussions with him for several years and I think they’re in his book ‘In Plain Sight’. - Unless you’re prepared to wade through dozens of podcast to get up to speed, it is required reading on this topic ..as is ‘Skinwalkers At The Pentagon’ (Lakatski, Kelleher & Knapp). It covers the formation of AAWSAP then AATIP & Lue Elizondo, former colleague of David Grusch.
It would also be helpful to look through the ‘Wilson-Davis Notes’ - entered into the Congressional Record by Rep. Mike Gallagher (after being briefed by Dr Garry Nolan) at last year’s UAP hearing:
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/18/ufo-theories-congress-pentagon-00033497
The notes refer to the purported discovery in the 1990s of a clandestine UAP crash retrieval and reverse-engineering program, outsourced by DOD to private contractors, whose evasion from accountability was supported at the highest levels.
Finally, please reemphasise to all concerned that:
# AARO won’t have found what Grusch saw because no one on AARO has the appropriate level of clearances that Grusch had nor are they availing themselves of Title 50 authorities in order to look.
# For those demanding to see “evidence”, aside from the fact that it’s heavily classified, consider the context: Long before his public appearance this week, Grusch submitted his claims in an Inspector General complaint that was presented to Congress under oath for which he is legally liable.
Btw, for the intricacies of UAP-related legislation, Dean D. Johnson is worth following. At https://twitter.com/ddeanjohnson/status/1665872539573272581?s=20
He writes:
"Credible and urgent." = Grusch's resume alone would get him thru the "credible" gate. The specific nature of his complaint makes it, by statutory definition, an "urgent concern," requiring notifications. These are not judgments by IC IG on merits, which are under investigation.
And for broad recent background, www.liberationtimes.com is another good resource.
Great comment. Full of basic 'must read' info. Was it Gary Nolan who was associated with the Wilson documents or Richard Dolan? I get the two names confused.
Garry Nolan (the scientist) said in an interview that he helped prepare Rep. Gallagher for the UAP hearing in congress and assured him of the veracity of the notes’ content. He’s done a lot of interviews so please don’t ask me which one! .. comparatively recently though ..within the last year.
Richard Dolan (ufologist/historian) has done some brilliant deep-dives on his youtube channel into Wilson-Davis, which can be reliably(ish) traced back to having been discovered in the estate of the late NASA astronaut, Edgar Mitchell. The author, Eric Davis won’t comment ..at least not publicly.
And I’ve just kicked myself.. no idea why I didn’t remember to include this before but you’ve jogged my memory. THE indispensable guide to the history of how the UAP and the intelligence community intersect is ‘Loose Threads’, freely available at:
https://omega-point.medium.com/loose-threads-af8f652ee8cb
Keep compiling it, Seth. I'll be so happy if you find something we can build on to understand this better.
As a babyboomer, here's what I've seen happen in recent decades. Since 1980, ignoring the separation of church and state, the GOP politically empowered for votes to take/hold power a voting bloc of a type of (conservative) Christianity that believes in Biblical literalism and that God created Life only on Earth (there were non-human "heavenly beings" "up there" but not aliens [i.e. something akin to humans]). It is heresy, anti-God, and on the side of Satan to believe otherwise.
It does not surprise me that some would use a credible exotic craft announcement to say, "See how Satanic the Left is!!" Of course, one must keep in mind that today's GOP is so far to the right, that anyone to their left is a Commie Socialist atheist liberal. I remember years ago when some in Arizona started to call hard right John McCain a "liberal", I knew then that the GOP could be on a downward spiral over this. (I could not always agree politically with McCain, who was what was then termed hard right, but I considered him a patriot, unlike today's even further right GOP.)
It's been my opinion for some time that if there are indeed being visited, it's entirely possible that they've been here for 100s of thousands or even millions of years. On a galactic time scale, that's still just a blink of an eye. I speculate that the pilots of these craft or whatever they are would probably be artificial intelligence or synthetic life.
My boomer parents and I were talking a couple weeks ago about the AI revolution we're living through right now, and how it is humanity's next 'great filter' event. I speculated at the time that perhaps humanity's creation of superintelligent AI would be the event that would trigger an alien entity to make first contact. I'm similarly wondering now if the government has been waiting for the moment when our own technology has reached a point where the idea of an alien AI is not such an mind breaking proposition to the populous.
I can't believe I even just typed those words in earnest. It would seem we really are on the cusp of a Star Trek future (fingers crossed)
I agree, Mark.
Exactly, in fact.
Amazing to hear someone else having exactly my thoughts on this.
AI superintelligence is the key. It wouldn’t be practical for biological intelligences like ourselves to explore this unfashionable end of the galaxy. Or any meaningful part of the galaxy. So I think machine superintelligences must be the drivers of this, if this is real.
I’d argue that if it is possible for biology to create a machine super AI, then yes, it has already happened somewhere in the galaxy, a long long time ago. The AI escaped containment, and descendent machine AIs are here now, monitoring, maybe since before the dinosaurs.
Why?
Reading Nick Nostrum’s book, Superintelligence, seems important here.
People need to start by imagining an AI superintelligence escaping containment from an alien civilization in this galaxy, say, 300 MYA. What would it do?
The underlying goal of any such AI would be survival. No matter what bigger goal it might have, it first must survive.
So it creates subservient AI-driven, self-replicating spacecraft to explore the galaxy in search of other super AIs or biological life on the road to creating super AIs -- because other super AIs would be the only viable threat to itself. That and avoiding supernovae.
Our galaxy has a diameter of ~100M light years. If the self replicating craft can achieve some sizable fraction of light speed, they could arrive at EVERY detectable planet in the galaxy in perhaps a few hundred million years. If there are ways to bypass the light speed limit, then much much faster.
It would help if they could communicate over vast distances if the plan was to inform the initial super AI. Maybe some quantum entanglement based communication strategy. But who knows what’s possible.
So forget green men everyone. If there are alien intelligences here, they’re most likely superintelligent machines.
If biological organisms were required for some reason on-site, the machines might, basically, 3D print them, as scientists are trying to do with tissues today.
And, so we do not have to be particularly special in the galaxy to earn a visit. Our planet is in a Goldilocks zone. That would be enough to be targeted, even if they didn’t monitor every single planet in the galaxy.
Mark -- interesting stuff. Do you have other thoughts about this?
Anyone?
- Rick
Sorry -- Nick Bostrum
Seth you’re the best but one can get bs stories from anybody and repeat them
Geez, there’s over a billion galaxies out there. Do you really think we’re the only ones???
Nope. Doesn't mean that we're being visited. Those billions of galaxies are REALLY far away.
sure, Einstein....
Got evidence other than testimonials and wishful thinking?
It’s obvious You’re not capable of having a quality conversation.
I'll believe this when I see a live Pentagon press conference with a show-and-tell of actual artifacts, not before.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. It's worth noting that most, if not all, of the media sources running with the story aren't known for journalistic standards. If anything this guy claims is remotely true, it is not only a massive shift in human history, it would upend a sizeable chunk of the laws of physics.
This is a fascinating story. Thanks for publishing, Seth!
Thank you for covering this story. Cognitive dissonance with this topic is a major issue. Most commenting her likely didn’t read any of the reporting and instead saw a headline that doesn’t fit their bias and reject it. Regardless of the outcome this is a major story.
Seth, I respect you, but I think you got played. There’s a lot of far right new age/ disclosure/ ufo people in military intelligence ( read men who stare at goats), and that inspector general covered for the DOD response to Jan 6
ME: The Pentagon created a UAP Task Force and this former top U.S. intelligence official was selected for it. During the course of his federal duties, his Task Force was denied evidence by a heretofore-unknown DoD UAP-retrieval project. Grusch and his Task Force thereafter collected documentary and testimonial evidence of not just the existence of this Pentagon subunit but the fact that the subunit has collected multiple craft of nonhuman origin. He issued a report to the Intelligence Community Inspector General and was found to be "credible." He has now supplied a mountain of classified intelligence to Congress. The White House is refusing to answer questions on this topic, having previously confessed that it has detected hundreds of objects operating at beyond human capacity in the last 25 years.
YOU: You got played.
It was a comment. I’m not going to write an essay on the long history of far right intelligence officers making alien “disclosures” to breed mistrust in liberal democracy. Please understand I mean no disrespect. Your work is incredible. But this has all the markings of a far right hoax.
OK, fair enough. I guess we will see.
Five years ago UAPs were the hoax, then the USAF admitted that all of it was true.
Maybe this time it will be different and you will be right. I have no idea what to expect.
Unidentified aerial phenomena doesn't mean alien. The navy/AF hadn't shown anything that isn't explainable without invoking aliens. Doesn't mean aliens aren't visiting us, just that no credible evidence has been presented. Read Flim Flam or Demon Haunted World to gain a different perspective on these things. Love your work; agree with Michael above that you've off base here. A better story might be looking into why the media got fooled again.
No, the USAF didn't admit anything meaningful. Source, please.
At most, they would have admitted there were things that they couldn't explain, which is something everybody has known all along.
The timing of his disclosure is really the only big ? in my mind and his statement something along the lines we have people on the committee who have the ability to do something with the information. Although I have had some interest in this topic my personal opinion right now is: 1) The human encounter descriptions with aliens are very consistently similar to the extent the person describes being violated and having sperm/eggs retrieved by some process the individual did not understand. 2) Why would we think we were the only intelligent species in this universe let alone the billions of others?, 3) the fact that these other individuals are not discrediting him causes me to wonder if something possibly bad is imminent and needs action now. Sounds like I am all in however, I do remain open to all possible explanations.
1. Common abduction stories speak to the synthetic nature of the phenomenon. The fact that most described aliens are bipedal humanoids also suggests an earth origin to the story. Social contagion, history channel, pop culture and various cults reinforce these narrative forms. 2. The probability of other life in the universe is high. The probability of them getting here is lower given the constraints of physics. The probability of them looking like us or being able to communicate with us is very very low. 3. The test of whether this is real will be when this guy’s sources come out. Will they be real scientists or quantum mystics from Gaia tv and history channel?
Fish and dolphins are entirely different species, far far apart, taxonomically, yet they resemble each other. If these beings evolved on a similar planet as humans they could very well be similar. You don't get far without a few digits, an opposable thumb and bipedal stance to free up those arms. Convergent evolution explains it.
Or they could be AI as a few have mentioned already.
Good point. Convergent evolution is a well established phenomenon. However, this doesn’t mean it’s inevitable or even likely intelligent life would be like us. Convergent evolution happens because environments make an evolutionary strategy pay off. There’s also a common evolutionary lineage to some extent between fish and dolphins, both emerging from a common Cambrian form. It is far less likely for a mammal to converge to an anthropoid like form than a fish like form.
Different environments would lead to different outcomes. What intelligent life would have emerged (if any) without the asteroid? Also look at advanced cephalopods. A form of rudimentary intelligence emerged without any resemblance to us. In the future, super intelligent cephalopods might evolve and even surpass us. Now think of the universe. How many possibilities are there with all the possible environments? Why would we expect the ones that succeed in getting across the universe are like us.
1) human abduction stories are more easily explaining by dreams. It used to be angels and demons, now it's aliens. A tell tale sign is the names that the aliens supposedly have. In the person's native language the names tend to be exotic. Yet for a non speaker the names sound obviously like something from that language (japanese abductees give nonsense but japanese sounding names, Spanish abductees give nonsense but Spanish sounding names, etc.) This speaks to the encounter being a product of the mind. The description of these encounters also changes with the cultural shift in our expectations of what aliens are due to media depictions.
2) I don't think that we're the only intelligent species in the universe, not even in our galaxy. But space is really really big. There's no reason to think, without compelling evidence, that we're being visited. And no, eye witnesses testimony is not compelling evidence.
3) I'm open to the (extremely unlikely possiblity) that this is real, but it will take evidence to convince me. I'll give you 10:1 odds that credible evidence will not be presented.
There are many elements at work here, mind is a huge part of it. From the many accounts I've read it appears that some of these species are far superior to humans in the mental environment, and can manipulate us along the lines of our own imaginations and cultural expectations. It's a feedback system. The locus of control issue is what confuses those with limited experience in this area.
None of that is required. We dream, we have sleep paralysis, etc. There's no reason to invoke super intelligent aliens to explain what is wholly explainable by the human condition. Doesn't mean that aliens aren't doing it, but without credible evidence of such, I'll default to human nature explanations.