PROOF subscribers can submit questions now—in the comments section of this post—which the author of the new book in the New York Times-bestselling Proof series will begin answering at 8PM ET tonight.
UPDATE (9:03 PM ET): Thanks for all the incredible questions, everyone! Definitely check out all the answers, as I may have spoken to a question you had in an answer to another subscriber. Talk to you all again soon!
In 2019 and 2020, Trump (working with Ginni Thomas, John McEntee, and others to purge his administration of anyone but Trumpist dead-enders) fired a slew of inspectors general who had displeased him. He made clear the firings were political. (In fact, Intelligence Community Inspector General Atkinson was explicitly fired because he helped launch the Trump-Ukraine investigation, which led to the first impeachment of Trump). During the 2020 campaign, Biden promised he would not do as Trump had done. He would not fire IGs. He is holding to that promise but I think Cuffari at DHS is testing his patience, and if he were smart he would see that O'Donnell's January 6 report at DoD is so alternately incompetent and corrupt as to be useless and a farce. I wish he would consider that Trump made some people IGs who should not be, and perhaps he ultimately will and will fire Cuffari. But for now, these men (Trump supporters) continue to do damage to America and harm our ability to learn the truth of January 6.
I worry that in this instance the POTUS is putting a well intentioned and misinformed political campaign promise in front of the welfare of our democracy. That is not his job!
Also, what about Gen Charles Flynn & DIA head Scott Berrier who participated in the insurrection and still holding important positions? Can't they be fired?
Do you think that in addition to Trump we will see indictments of sitting Senators and Representatives with all of the evidence of their direct participation in the coup attempt? Most important of all, will Roger Stone be indicted? PS He will flip under pressure.
Senators, no—I think Cruz, Johnson, and Hawley did just enough to keep their nose clear of the worst. Members of the House Freedom Caucus, who appear to have plotted treason on December 21, 2020? Possibly, though that may take far more courage than the DOJ has. The thing about Stone is that the easiest way to get him is through his lies, but he is pleading the 5th and largely staying quiet in the face of questions from investigators and *most* media. But no, he will never flip. He is deranged and radical and even if charged would wait in prison hoping for another Trump pardon (or commutation) in January of 2025. Stone commits crimes in phone calls and private meetings and over secure messages—DOJ will have to get access to these to get himl, but Garland waiting 18 months to investigate anyone rich and powerful over January 6 may mean that all that evidence is already gone.
I don't know that a 70 year old man would be willing to give up 2 1/2 years in prison for a pardon that looks highly unlikely if he were convicted of organizing a coup. That is treason.
Throughout this whole story, what really surprises me is that Eric Prince doesn't seem to be involved. From reading the Proof series, an armed insurrection seems right up his alley. If anyone could round up a private army...it would be Prince.
Q1. Is there any evidence Prince was involved in J6?
Q2. I don't know. No evidence either way at this point, though Trump is likely pretty angry at Erik Prince's sister (Betsy DeVos) for quitting the Trump administration after January 6.
When you look at the military and intelligence connections that some of these people have/had, it seems like the military is a breeding ground for this sort of above the law, Machiavellian behavior. Easy enough to say look at all the service people who don't do this but bottom line is our tax dollars are creating a system that allows this type of behavior to develop in certain people and the specialized and sometimes uniquely deadly and or manipulative training they are provided at public expense is then being used against the USA. Do you think the military can do more to deter this sort of behavior in the first instance with better training and supervision of those provided these skills and also enforcement, such as recalling those it can recall (Flynn for example) and court-martialing them? Why isn't the military banning participation is unofficial militias which aim to destroy the government, requiring service members to provide information on all militia contacts and memberships, and dishonorably discharge/ court-martial them for lying or participating in a forbidden group? Their constitutional rights would not be infringed if the regulations were carefully crafted. Their actions are in direct conflicts with their oaths to serve and defend.
If you'll look carefully I think you'll find that most of the problem is with Trump's civilian appointees and not active duty generals. He also put in place some retired generals who did a pretty good job before resigning because of Trump. Flynn is the retired general who crawled into bed with Trump and Putin and is the traitor.
Seth sort of answered that aspect of the issue with respect to Charles Flynn and the civilian leadership doing an end run around the military leadership last night. But any sense why the Military brass covered up for Charles Flynn by saying he wasn't on the call? It wasn't an off the cuff answer; the denial went on for days. Or do you have any sense why, when such a high profile person as retired general Michael Flynn foments a violent rebellion against the United States in the form of strike on the Capitol complex (backed up by an arsenal and QRF) to prevent the lawful transfer of power, they don't recall and court martial? Ditto for men like Erik Prince, who receive highly specialized military training and has his mitts in all kinds of nefarious stuff? And all the rank and file military who are in so-called militias training to overthrow the government? While it's a small percent of the military population, it's still a major concern. If you look the saturation in reverse and consider how intensely both current and former military are represented in so-called militias, the problem is more striking (and clearly in the military's bailiwick if their active duty people are planning and training others to overthrow the government). Having provided strategic, lethal training, at taxpayer expense, has the military no duty and no will to minimize the risk of it being used against the American people or to take action when it is?
You raise important issues. I agree that M Flynn should be held accountable by the military by actively pushing unconstitutional moves such as advocating for Trump to declarie martial law and for turning America into a theocracy.
What do you think is the common interest of these coup plotters (if any) beyond keeping Trump in office long enough to achieve their aims? It seems like a collection of people who wanted to break down the existing government, some to impose a christofascist regime, some to profit, some to undo the concept of centralized government, etc.
I think the GOP knows it is a dying party. It has no ideas, a dwindling constituency, and is increasingly dominated by radical yokels and venal scoundrels. They decided long ago that they would have to cheat to stay in power. I think almost every atrocity and crime and malfeasance committed by a Republican over the last seven years has been an attempt to save the party from total historical annihilation—disappearing into the mists of history. And they have sold their sold their souls for that dream, which was never more than that: a pretty dream. The Devil's Bargain they struck is that they would keep the Republican brand alive... but everything the party stood for would die. Faustian, to say the least. (In addition to this, yes, it was easier for a bad or incompetent or venal man to get power under Trump than any other POTUS in history—because all he demands is loyalty and a lack of scruples—so some bad people tried to aid him simply because they could not have a meaningful role in American public life any other way, nor did they deserve one. Trump's acolytes are by and large the dregs of the American political class.)
It’s been established that sitting members of Congress were told the Eastman/Navarro plan was illegal. In addition, I’m sure every Republican had heard rumblings of what was going on at the Pentagon and the DOJ.
Can the argument be made that any Republican that voted to NOT certify should be ineligible to hold office? What about the State Republican Atty Generals?
I think the Speech & Debate Clause protects the vote itself. But if the vote was handled in a way deliberately intended to delay a congressional proceeding *so that* the Capitol could be stormed and occupied—i.e., if the House Freedom Caucus knew what was going to happen in advance—I think there is potential legal liability there.
With the SCOTUS, DOD, Senate & House, corp media, 40%+ populace, judges who are going light on J6 defendants & voters who either aren’t engaged or are doubting Thomases who refuse to believe we are better off than two years ago…. what are the odds you’re giving our Republic?
I believe we have literally no chance of again being the country we once were until the Republican Party as a political institution has been obliterated at the ballot box. The GOP is terminally poisoned—it is a cult—and it is taking America down with it. Only the end of the GOP can save America and I actually think a lot of people, including some Republicans, know this. That does not mean we would not have a new conservative party, we would, but there would be no Trumpists inside it just as there were supposed to be no Baathists in government in Iraq after Saddam. I think we are at least 15 to 20 years from anything like this happening (I mean a viable new conservative party), so the walking zombie of the GOP will go on until America decides, rightly, that at this point in time no Republican can be permitted by voters to be in a position of any authority, and I mean down to the state and maybe even local level. The party, as I said, has been terminally poisoned. It is over as a moral or ethical entity that can be anything but death for America and American democracy.
So seeding ground in Canada wasn’t insane after all !
At 68 yrs old I don’t have the luxury of waiting 20 yrs to see if the radical amoral right breaks its fever. And Goddess help us what kind of broken scorched landscape they’ll leave behind.
Thank you Seth for being such a fierce beacon of Truth through all of it! You’ve been the only mirror of reality in this evil funhouse. With gratitude, Sally
Will Biden be willing to fire the DHS Inspector General Cuffari now that he is refusing to hand over information to Jan. 6 committee about deleted Secret Service text messages?
Biden moves slowly on most things. If he does fire Cuffari, it will likely be too late to matter because the chance to retrieve the deleted information may already have passed and the witnesses synchronized their stories. Also, the House January 6 Committee may be gone by this January. Cuffari, who has a history of misconduct, should already have been fired but the fact that Biden has not done it makes me think he is worried about the politics of the thing—he promised to fire no IGs during his POTUS run—so at best he would wait until after the midterms. But again, the damage will long ago have been done by then.
What do you deem it will take for media to start reporting on this, i.e. to come clean? Will they wait for an indictment before they start sobering up?
How many people do you think are following investigations like yours and remain unmesmerized by all the cons?
I can't speculate, as to the latter question. As to the former, the one thing corporate journalists fear is getting ahead of a story and losing their reputation amongst their peers. It makes many of them craven—even in the face of a national emergency that could end America, they are thinking first about their careers and how they are seen and what jobs they could get in the future. That will not change. The most fearless journalists always have and always will work outside the restraints (self-imposed and otherwise) of major-media corporate institutions. So yes, when Trump is finally bagged legally—if that ever happens—they will come around, but will heap calumny upon those who were ahead of them in the story on their way toward an unearned victory lap. Understand this: those who did the best work on Trump, and there are many out there of whom that can be said, will never get mainstream recognition for it (and will in fact get only attacked for it) and they better understand that now. All the prizes and awards and superlatives will go to those who were largely stenos for anonymous sources in power. There are exceptions, of course, but that is by and large the way of it.
It's a mindstaggering amount of persons who contributed their part to this attempted Coup, some of them unexperienced and seemingly 'can't believe their luck to get this high up'. Who do you think most likely to flip and cooperate with Jan6Committee?
There are signs that Ezra Cohen-Watnick deems himself too young and smart and promising to go down with the ship.
Miller is more a fool than a sycophant; I believe he could be turned back to justice.
Patel is a fanatic and will never turn.
You would think someone like McCarthy would be a good candidate, but remember that the Pentagon (via O'Donnell) already covered for (and lied for) *all* these people, so what is the impetus to turn state's evidence? They apprehend no danger to themselves.
I actually think Ivanka and Jared would turn against Trump if they had to, but they were not involved in January 6 in any serious way. Don Jr. and Eric Trump are dead-enders who just want their dad's love and will never have it; but they will not turn.
If I were at DOJ/in the FBI I would go for someone like Ken Cuccinelli, who is a careerist who likely does not want to be damned by history. Also, consider that some men—Pence, Pompeo—would hugely benefit if Trump went down, but of course he would have to go down hard and permanently (in a legal and political sense, I mean) and their fingerprints could not be on it or they would have giant targets on their back (perhaps, sadly, in even the literal sense as well as politically) otherwise.
Roger Stone, Alex Jones, and Ali Alexander will not turn. They may pretend to, but they will not turn. Meadows appears to have decided to go down with the ship, and Guilfoyle. Bannon is a monster and will not turn.
There are some mid-level aides like Caroline Wren, Maggie Mulvaney, and so on who I think could be interesting witnesses. Ornato is Trump's creature and will not turn and I am assuming Engel was only where he was because he too is a radical loyalist.
Seth, I’m curious about how involved Kushner was in the Jan 6th plot in light of the recent insanely critical op-ed by the surprisingly Harvard-educated dolt Peter Navarro?
I have not come across any involvement by Kushner. I think he abandoned his father's cause when he knew—as Trump knew; as everyone on Team Trump knew (and indeed anticipated in advance)—that he had lost the 2020 election. So, sometime in the first week of November 2020. Everything after that was madness and destruction and possible treachery to the U.S., and Kushner was at least smart and sophisticated enough to see that.
When I can listen to your voice again Seth? I drive a lot and for this reason I have more time to listen then reading to you. Any podcast or radio program?
I am hoping to get back to a podcast eventually but am not sure when or if it would be regular rather than sporadic. I do love radio—I got my start in journalism (sports journalism, oddly enough) in radio almost 30 years ago—so I would love to do a regular podcast if the terms and circumstances were exactly right. More likely, I will again start doing more Instagram Q&As/AMAs.
Hi Seth, do you think it is possible or likely that there are copies or traces somewhere of the communications that the DoD and SS deleted regarding J6? Also, would it be possible for Trump to somehow take copies of classified docs rather than the originals to hide at his properties? It seems really foolish to hide originals when they are known to be missing and are being searched for. How can the government guarantee docs aren't copied...either electronically or on paper...especially when Trump was having his aides toss them into boxes and taking them to his residence?
I expect (re: Trump and Mar-a-Lago) that (1) there are more documents still hidden, (2) some documents have been destroyed or in some other way disappeared, (3) some documents were copied before being returned.
I *do* think there should be traces of the USSS/DoD/DHS deleted materials. But will Cuffari or O'Donnell actually look for them? Of that I am less sure. The more reliable route is to get all these folks under oath (Wolf, Cuccinelli, all the guys from DoD even if they have testified before, Ornato, Engel and so on).
Do you think that the unique issue of three branches of government and elements of the military potentially being involved in coup planning poses a unique enforcement challenge that may be too overwhelming to overcome and if so, which groups get convicted and which never get charged? Do you think there is any chance at all of tying Ginni's actions to Clarence or anyone else on the USSC? Also you were careful to distinguish civilian overseers of military from military itself and I'm wondering why, esp. in light of highly decorated ex-military involvement , enlisted service member, and even possibly Charles Flynn's involvement in the coup effort?
I think Charles Flynn's involvement was likely gross negligence rather than part of the plot itself. Quite simply, the civilian leadership had its own plan and the military was out of the loop. Flynn should not have been on that call and he knows it and he was wrong to be on it.
I cannot predict, with Ginni Thomas. I believe she will never testify and if she does she will plead the Fifth Amendment, which if nothing else could force Thomas to recuse from future January 6 cases or fake impeachment otherwise (but he would not be convicted).
Yes, I think some crimes are so pervasive and committed by those so institutionally ensconced that our justice system does not know how to handle it and so instead does nothing.
I think Ginni Thomas has to be subpoenaed just to force Thomas into recusing from future Jan 6 cases. That's a no-brainer for the committee. regardless of the outcome. They know he will vote against any case of theirs that makes it to the SC. It will also force Roberts to apply the pressure to Thomas to recuse.
Ot appears certain megadonors have discovered strategic "Institutionally Esconced" gov positions that they are now trying hard to fill w/their own(DeJoy, Cuffari, etc...)
I read (Jim Stewartson, Mind War substack) that Charles Flynn got his 4th star (the same day Mike Flynn received his pardon) so he could be at the meeting and have the authority to prevent the Nat'l Guard from responding.
No, no... just listening to Waldron is not a crime. Listening and agreeing to aid him could be, if an overt act is thereafter taken in furtherance of his plot.
Generally the law does not prosecute omissions, though misprision of a felony is technically a crime.
And yes, every/any member of Congress who knew what Waldron was up to should have called the FBI immediately. Every single one.
UPDATE (9:03 PM ET): Thanks for all the incredible questions, everyone! Definitely check out all the answers, as I may have spoken to a question you had in an answer to another subscriber. Talk to you all again soon!
Thanks for taking the time to do this.
Thanks, Seth! Answered all my questions. Take a deep breath & chillax for awhile.
Thank you!
How come Biden hasn't cleaned out all of these corrupted trump appointees?
In 2019 and 2020, Trump (working with Ginni Thomas, John McEntee, and others to purge his administration of anyone but Trumpist dead-enders) fired a slew of inspectors general who had displeased him. He made clear the firings were political. (In fact, Intelligence Community Inspector General Atkinson was explicitly fired because he helped launch the Trump-Ukraine investigation, which led to the first impeachment of Trump). During the 2020 campaign, Biden promised he would not do as Trump had done. He would not fire IGs. He is holding to that promise but I think Cuffari at DHS is testing his patience, and if he were smart he would see that O'Donnell's January 6 report at DoD is so alternately incompetent and corrupt as to be useless and a farce. I wish he would consider that Trump made some people IGs who should not be, and perhaps he ultimately will and will fire Cuffari. But for now, these men (Trump supporters) continue to do damage to America and harm our ability to learn the truth of January 6.
That's not really an acceptable response by biden. These were obviously unqualified political appointees.
I worry that in this instance the POTUS is putting a well intentioned and misinformed political campaign promise in front of the welfare of our democracy. That is not his job!
Also, what about Gen Charles Flynn & DIA head Scott Berrier who participated in the insurrection and still holding important positions? Can't they be fired?
Do you think that in addition to Trump we will see indictments of sitting Senators and Representatives with all of the evidence of their direct participation in the coup attempt? Most important of all, will Roger Stone be indicted? PS He will flip under pressure.
Senators, no—I think Cruz, Johnson, and Hawley did just enough to keep their nose clear of the worst. Members of the House Freedom Caucus, who appear to have plotted treason on December 21, 2020? Possibly, though that may take far more courage than the DOJ has. The thing about Stone is that the easiest way to get him is through his lies, but he is pleading the 5th and largely staying quiet in the face of questions from investigators and *most* media. But no, he will never flip. He is deranged and radical and even if charged would wait in prison hoping for another Trump pardon (or commutation) in January of 2025. Stone commits crimes in phone calls and private meetings and over secure messages—DOJ will have to get access to these to get himl, but Garland waiting 18 months to investigate anyone rich and powerful over January 6 may mean that all that evidence is already gone.
I don't know that a 70 year old man would be willing to give up 2 1/2 years in prison for a pardon that looks highly unlikely if he were convicted of organizing a coup. That is treason.
I sadly agree
Throughout this whole story, what really surprises me is that Eric Prince doesn't seem to be involved. From reading the Proof series, an armed insurrection seems right up his alley. If anyone could round up a private army...it would be Prince.
Q1. Is there any evidence Prince was involved in J6?
Q2. Is Prince still in Trump's orbit?
Q1. I wrote everything I know about this here: https://sethabramson.substack.com/p/new-the-coming-collapse-of-donald-67a
Q2. I don't know. No evidence either way at this point, though Trump is likely pretty angry at Erik Prince's sister (Betsy DeVos) for quitting the Trump administration after January 6.
Any thoughts on why J6C want to speak w/DeVos & Elaine Chow (who both resigned shortly after Insurrection)...
My guess is that it has to do with understanding why they decided against the 25th Ammendment & if that had anything to do with her resignation.
When you look at the military and intelligence connections that some of these people have/had, it seems like the military is a breeding ground for this sort of above the law, Machiavellian behavior. Easy enough to say look at all the service people who don't do this but bottom line is our tax dollars are creating a system that allows this type of behavior to develop in certain people and the specialized and sometimes uniquely deadly and or manipulative training they are provided at public expense is then being used against the USA. Do you think the military can do more to deter this sort of behavior in the first instance with better training and supervision of those provided these skills and also enforcement, such as recalling those it can recall (Flynn for example) and court-martialing them? Why isn't the military banning participation is unofficial militias which aim to destroy the government, requiring service members to provide information on all militia contacts and memberships, and dishonorably discharge/ court-martial them for lying or participating in a forbidden group? Their constitutional rights would not be infringed if the regulations were carefully crafted. Their actions are in direct conflicts with their oaths to serve and defend.
If you'll look carefully I think you'll find that most of the problem is with Trump's civilian appointees and not active duty generals. He also put in place some retired generals who did a pretty good job before resigning because of Trump. Flynn is the retired general who crawled into bed with Trump and Putin and is the traitor.
Seth sort of answered that aspect of the issue with respect to Charles Flynn and the civilian leadership doing an end run around the military leadership last night. But any sense why the Military brass covered up for Charles Flynn by saying he wasn't on the call? It wasn't an off the cuff answer; the denial went on for days. Or do you have any sense why, when such a high profile person as retired general Michael Flynn foments a violent rebellion against the United States in the form of strike on the Capitol complex (backed up by an arsenal and QRF) to prevent the lawful transfer of power, they don't recall and court martial? Ditto for men like Erik Prince, who receive highly specialized military training and has his mitts in all kinds of nefarious stuff? And all the rank and file military who are in so-called militias training to overthrow the government? While it's a small percent of the military population, it's still a major concern. If you look the saturation in reverse and consider how intensely both current and former military are represented in so-called militias, the problem is more striking (and clearly in the military's bailiwick if their active duty people are planning and training others to overthrow the government). Having provided strategic, lethal training, at taxpayer expense, has the military no duty and no will to minimize the risk of it being used against the American people or to take action when it is?
You raise important issues. I agree that M Flynn should be held accountable by the military by actively pushing unconstitutional moves such as advocating for Trump to declarie martial law and for turning America into a theocracy.
Sorry this question wasn’t answered—I’d like to hear it!
What do you think is the common interest of these coup plotters (if any) beyond keeping Trump in office long enough to achieve their aims? It seems like a collection of people who wanted to break down the existing government, some to impose a christofascist regime, some to profit, some to undo the concept of centralized government, etc.
I think the GOP knows it is a dying party. It has no ideas, a dwindling constituency, and is increasingly dominated by radical yokels and venal scoundrels. They decided long ago that they would have to cheat to stay in power. I think almost every atrocity and crime and malfeasance committed by a Republican over the last seven years has been an attempt to save the party from total historical annihilation—disappearing into the mists of history. And they have sold their sold their souls for that dream, which was never more than that: a pretty dream. The Devil's Bargain they struck is that they would keep the Republican brand alive... but everything the party stood for would die. Faustian, to say the least. (In addition to this, yes, it was easier for a bad or incompetent or venal man to get power under Trump than any other POTUS in history—because all he demands is loyalty and a lack of scruples—so some bad people tried to aid him simply because they could not have a meaningful role in American public life any other way, nor did they deserve one. Trump's acolytes are by and large the dregs of the American political class.)
It’s been established that sitting members of Congress were told the Eastman/Navarro plan was illegal. In addition, I’m sure every Republican had heard rumblings of what was going on at the Pentagon and the DOJ.
Can the argument be made that any Republican that voted to NOT certify should be ineligible to hold office? What about the State Republican Atty Generals?
Thank you!
I think the Speech & Debate Clause protects the vote itself. But if the vote was handled in a way deliberately intended to delay a congressional proceeding *so that* the Capitol could be stormed and occupied—i.e., if the House Freedom Caucus knew what was going to happen in advance—I think there is potential legal liability there.
With the SCOTUS, DOD, Senate & House, corp media, 40%+ populace, judges who are going light on J6 defendants & voters who either aren’t engaged or are doubting Thomases who refuse to believe we are better off than two years ago…. what are the odds you’re giving our Republic?
I believe we have literally no chance of again being the country we once were until the Republican Party as a political institution has been obliterated at the ballot box. The GOP is terminally poisoned—it is a cult—and it is taking America down with it. Only the end of the GOP can save America and I actually think a lot of people, including some Republicans, know this. That does not mean we would not have a new conservative party, we would, but there would be no Trumpists inside it just as there were supposed to be no Baathists in government in Iraq after Saddam. I think we are at least 15 to 20 years from anything like this happening (I mean a viable new conservative party), so the walking zombie of the GOP will go on until America decides, rightly, that at this point in time no Republican can be permitted by voters to be in a position of any authority, and I mean down to the state and maybe even local level. The party, as I said, has been terminally poisoned. It is over as a moral or ethical entity that can be anything but death for America and American democracy.
So seeding ground in Canada wasn’t insane after all !
At 68 yrs old I don’t have the luxury of waiting 20 yrs to see if the radical amoral right breaks its fever. And Goddess help us what kind of broken scorched landscape they’ll leave behind.
Thank you Seth for being such a fierce beacon of Truth through all of it! You’ve been the only mirror of reality in this evil funhouse. With gratitude, Sally
So True! No member of the GOP can be allowed to hold office of any kind, Fed, State or Local !
Will Biden be willing to fire the DHS Inspector General Cuffari now that he is refusing to hand over information to Jan. 6 committee about deleted Secret Service text messages?
Biden moves slowly on most things. If he does fire Cuffari, it will likely be too late to matter because the chance to retrieve the deleted information may already have passed and the witnesses synchronized their stories. Also, the House January 6 Committee may be gone by this January. Cuffari, who has a history of misconduct, should already have been fired but the fact that Biden has not done it makes me think he is worried about the politics of the thing—he promised to fire no IGs during his POTUS run—so at best he would wait until after the midterms. But again, the damage will long ago have been done by then.
What do you deem it will take for media to start reporting on this, i.e. to come clean? Will they wait for an indictment before they start sobering up?
How many people do you think are following investigations like yours and remain unmesmerized by all the cons?
I can't speculate, as to the latter question. As to the former, the one thing corporate journalists fear is getting ahead of a story and losing their reputation amongst their peers. It makes many of them craven—even in the face of a national emergency that could end America, they are thinking first about their careers and how they are seen and what jobs they could get in the future. That will not change. The most fearless journalists always have and always will work outside the restraints (self-imposed and otherwise) of major-media corporate institutions. So yes, when Trump is finally bagged legally—if that ever happens—they will come around, but will heap calumny upon those who were ahead of them in the story on their way toward an unearned victory lap. Understand this: those who did the best work on Trump, and there are many out there of whom that can be said, will never get mainstream recognition for it (and will in fact get only attacked for it) and they better understand that now. All the prizes and awards and superlatives will go to those who were largely stenos for anonymous sources in power. There are exceptions, of course, but that is by and large the way of it.
Another sad agreement
It's a mindstaggering amount of persons who contributed their part to this attempted Coup, some of them unexperienced and seemingly 'can't believe their luck to get this high up'. Who do you think most likely to flip and cooperate with Jan6Committee?
There are signs that Ezra Cohen-Watnick deems himself too young and smart and promising to go down with the ship.
Miller is more a fool than a sycophant; I believe he could be turned back to justice.
Patel is a fanatic and will never turn.
You would think someone like McCarthy would be a good candidate, but remember that the Pentagon (via O'Donnell) already covered for (and lied for) *all* these people, so what is the impetus to turn state's evidence? They apprehend no danger to themselves.
I actually think Ivanka and Jared would turn against Trump if they had to, but they were not involved in January 6 in any serious way. Don Jr. and Eric Trump are dead-enders who just want their dad's love and will never have it; but they will not turn.
If I were at DOJ/in the FBI I would go for someone like Ken Cuccinelli, who is a careerist who likely does not want to be damned by history. Also, consider that some men—Pence, Pompeo—would hugely benefit if Trump went down, but of course he would have to go down hard and permanently (in a legal and political sense, I mean) and their fingerprints could not be on it or they would have giant targets on their back (perhaps, sadly, in even the literal sense as well as politically) otherwise.
Roger Stone, Alex Jones, and Ali Alexander will not turn. They may pretend to, but they will not turn. Meadows appears to have decided to go down with the ship, and Guilfoyle. Bannon is a monster and will not turn.
There are some mid-level aides like Caroline Wren, Maggie Mulvaney, and so on who I think could be interesting witnesses. Ornato is Trump's creature and will not turn and I am assuming Engel was only where he was because he too is a radical loyalist.
Seth, I’m curious about how involved Kushner was in the Jan 6th plot in light of the recent insanely critical op-ed by the surprisingly Harvard-educated dolt Peter Navarro?
I have not come across any involvement by Kushner. I think he abandoned his father's cause when he knew—as Trump knew; as everyone on Team Trump knew (and indeed anticipated in advance)—that he had lost the 2020 election. So, sometime in the first week of November 2020. Everything after that was madness and destruction and possible treachery to the U.S., and Kushner was at least smart and sophisticated enough to see that.
Father in law?
Yes.
When I can listen to your voice again Seth? I drive a lot and for this reason I have more time to listen then reading to you. Any podcast or radio program?
I am hoping to get back to a podcast eventually but am not sure when or if it would be regular rather than sporadic. I do love radio—I got my start in journalism (sports journalism, oddly enough) in radio almost 30 years ago—so I would love to do a regular podcast if the terms and circumstances were exactly right. More likely, I will again start doing more Instagram Q&As/AMAs.
Hi Seth, do you think it is possible or likely that there are copies or traces somewhere of the communications that the DoD and SS deleted regarding J6? Also, would it be possible for Trump to somehow take copies of classified docs rather than the originals to hide at his properties? It seems really foolish to hide originals when they are known to be missing and are being searched for. How can the government guarantee docs aren't copied...either electronically or on paper...especially when Trump was having his aides toss them into boxes and taking them to his residence?
I expect (re: Trump and Mar-a-Lago) that (1) there are more documents still hidden, (2) some documents have been destroyed or in some other way disappeared, (3) some documents were copied before being returned.
I *do* think there should be traces of the USSS/DoD/DHS deleted materials. But will Cuffari or O'Donnell actually look for them? Of that I am less sure. The more reliable route is to get all these folks under oath (Wolf, Cuccinelli, all the guys from DoD even if they have testified before, Ornato, Engel and so on).
Do you think that the unique issue of three branches of government and elements of the military potentially being involved in coup planning poses a unique enforcement challenge that may be too overwhelming to overcome and if so, which groups get convicted and which never get charged? Do you think there is any chance at all of tying Ginni's actions to Clarence or anyone else on the USSC? Also you were careful to distinguish civilian overseers of military from military itself and I'm wondering why, esp. in light of highly decorated ex-military involvement , enlisted service member, and even possibly Charles Flynn's involvement in the coup effort?
I think Charles Flynn's involvement was likely gross negligence rather than part of the plot itself. Quite simply, the civilian leadership had its own plan and the military was out of the loop. Flynn should not have been on that call and he knows it and he was wrong to be on it.
I cannot predict, with Ginni Thomas. I believe she will never testify and if she does she will plead the Fifth Amendment, which if nothing else could force Thomas to recuse from future January 6 cases or fake impeachment otherwise (but he would not be convicted).
Yes, I think some crimes are so pervasive and committed by those so institutionally ensconced that our justice system does not know how to handle it and so instead does nothing.
I think Ginni Thomas has to be subpoenaed just to force Thomas into recusing from future Jan 6 cases. That's a no-brainer for the committee. regardless of the outcome. They know he will vote against any case of theirs that makes it to the SC. It will also force Roberts to apply the pressure to Thomas to recuse.
Ot appears certain megadonors have discovered strategic "Institutionally Esconced" gov positions that they are now trying hard to fill w/their own(DeJoy, Cuffari, etc...)
I read (Jim Stewartson, Mind War substack) that Charles Flynn got his 4th star (the same day Mike Flynn received his pardon) so he could be at the meeting and have the authority to prevent the Nat'l Guard from responding.
That would be interesting, if true.
Assuming for the sake of argument that the DOJ knows all this (plus more) and agrees it’s treason…
Is everyone who heard/read the Waldron considered a co-conspirator? Is that why they asked for the pardons?
What would be the defense?
Would a GOP pol who witnessed a briefing and took no other action be culpable?
If I were aware of the plot, should I have reported it to Trump’s FBI? Would I feel safe doing so?
How many people do you think are potentially guilty of treason?
No, no... just listening to Waldron is not a crime. Listening and agreeing to aid him could be, if an overt act is thereafter taken in furtherance of his plot.
Generally the law does not prosecute omissions, though misprision of a felony is technically a crime.
And yes, every/any member of Congress who knew what Waldron was up to should have called the FBI immediately. Every single one.